In a previous video we had a look at a ladies Nissan Maxima that was having an issue that we identified as a high voltage problem. It seemed to happen when we were turning left for some reason. At any rate it is now time to follow the facts and test the charging system to see if the dealer was right. Does the vehicle need a whole new harness or does it simply have a bad alternator? Let's see.
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-Enjoy!
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If an SMA Video has helped you out please consider giving using "Patreon" to help support us. The videos take real time to create and pull us away from real work that pays our bills. CLICK HERE: https://www.patreon.com/southmainauto
CHECK OUT OUR "SMA SWAG" STORE! Go on Teespring and get your very own SMA merch!
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If you don't like Patreon feel free to use the "PayPal Me" link: https://www.paypal.me/SouthMainAuto
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Thank you for all the continuing support!
--Eric & Vanessa O.
Feel like sending some swag to SMA because you love the videos but don't know where to send it?
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47 S. Main St
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Avoca, NY 14809
Disclaimer:
Due to factors beyond the control of South Main Auto Repair, it cannot guarantee against unauthorized modifications of this information, or improper use of this information. South Main Auto Repair assumes no liability for property damage or injury incurred as a result of any of the information contained in this video. South Main Auto Repair recommends safe practices when working with power tools, automotive lifts, lifting tools, jack stands, electrical equipment, blunt instruments, chemicals, lubricants, or any other tools or equipment seen or implied in this video. Due to factors beyond the control of South Main Auto Repair, no information contained in this video shall create any express or implied warranty or guarantee of any particular result. Any injury, damage or loss that may result from improper use of these tools, equipment, or the information contained.
I'm gon na attempt to do this folks, uh. I do fancy screen recording stuff, but it's a little too much for me today. Our red trace i've got hooked to the generator sense wire. So right now it's holding about 14 and a half volts 14.3 um.
That's the wire going to the alternator that that it's going to use for a reference we'll say for lack of a better term. All there's going to look at that and say: hey, i'm putting out you know x amount. How much is it really putting out? You know how much am i getting so this? Basically, it's just letting the alternator know: hey i'm at 14 point whatever volts or 15 volts. The blue trace.
Is this generator duty cycle, the alternator duty cycle, which is currently off and nissan service data sucks, to say the least, but i did look and um it does describe how that system works uh when the instrument panel calls for a higher voltage or more alternator output. So to speak, then it turns on this alternator duty cycle. Otherwise it works in normal mode, not power mode. It's a it's a fuel economy strategy they have and then our green trace is the alternator case ground.
Because if we're losing case ground, we can lose um. It it'll it'll screw up the other part of the sense voltage. So if we lose case ground it can drive the voltage super high. That's usually the most common cause for an alternator over charging is just you know, poor ground in a sense circuit type system.
So i'm gon na take it for a drive, see if we can catch it in the act and then you know see if we just have a bad alternator or if we're losing signal sense, or it's pulling the duty cycle right straight to ground and making it Overcharge like crazy - i don't know so it's kind of hard to do all this at once. Uh, well, looking at all this stuff and driving and not dying like that kind of thing. So i think the pattern of this is is to pull over after you've been driving it for a little bit, wait a minute or so and then take back off. That's when it seems to be the most consistent.
Now i did notice when i was driving back there and i was slowing down and then speeding up. I did get it to do it, one time where the voltage went up to like 15.7. Just briefly - and i didn't see any anomalies over here other than high voltage, my battery light came on. Flickered did its thing, car act, kind of stupid and then away.
We went, i think, we're gon na find that we simply have a bad alternator uh. It wasn't being commanded at any point uh, you know where it was in its you know: power reduction mode or whatever you want to call it i'd have to. I got to look up that theory on that. For you, folks, the alternator seems to be a self-contained regulation system using a sense wire, the case ground, the l wire for the light, and then the blue trace that we have, that is this alternator duty cycle gives the cluster.
I think it came from the from the cluster, it picks up its information for the data network and then sends it out to the alternator. To put it in, you know, performance charging type mode. I think we simply have a bad alternator uh when it was acting stupid. The one i was paying attention to was our green trace, making sure our ground wasn't elevated and it wasn't. But i'd like to get a good moment where it's really screwing up and i can pause and say yep boom. You know we're right needs an alternator move on with our day. Well, this is just as frustrating af. I cannot get this sucker to act up again.
I've done it twice now, the second time when i reached over to pause my uh screen recorder or not screen recorder, but the pico. I hit the space bar twice, so it paused it and then started off again. So i lost that on you the first time i just nearly paused it, because i thought for sure we're going to get to do it twice or three times eventually. Here, i'm just going to make the call.
I seen it with my own eyes, but i like to be able to prove stuff to you, because you guys have trust issues with me. At least, i think we do as the chief mechanic parts changer slash owner, i've made an executive decision to purchase an alternator and a belt and then replace it. We could probably drive this thing around a lot and spend lots of time a hundred percent. Getting you guys the perfect screenshot and showing you but you're gon na have to trust me.
I saw it with my papers. I know you guys think i'm lying because i'm smirking that's what my mom always said, but i'm not. I feel very confident in that. If that's not it, i don't know at this point, but that is a great question to ask yourself: if what you plan on doing doesn't fix it.
What are you going to do next, and you should have already done that and i think i have i think i've covered all those bases where, when i saw acting up, i wasn't losing a ground. The pcm wasn't commanding anything extra on the blue trace. So um remember, i told you that's that power management, fuel economy, gizmo doesn't really matter how it works. The fact that it wasn't commanding it on to charge higher or more more current is a good thing, because now we know we're just still dealing with the base.
Alternator system, it's internally regulated regulator for that matter, and that's all it can be. Nothing else was commanding it. We weren't losing a case ground and those are the only things in my opinion that can make it go high. Now some people are thinking like well, you clamped onto the alternator down there with the ground and then over here with the ground, maybe by clamping on your ground.
You clamped on the alternator and the bracket there by repairing the ground, but i made sure i didn't do that. I clamped on the alternator case only so i'm confident i got one ordered it's not gon na be here until tomorrow afternoon, but that's the best snapper can do and uh you guys are just gon na have to wait and see. We're gon na need this folks. Alternator is on the new belt is on we're getting us a 10 day sticker, so we can go drive it because it fails inspection. So we need to put in a date here. So we get us a 10-day. I get one chance of this in the p-r-n-y uh, so we'll get us a 10 days. We go drive this sucker legally.
The registration on it is good, so uh once that prints out we're going to go, take it for a shakedown and see if we were right. We better tell mrs, oh, hey young lady, we're going for a drive brb. Let's get this little guy up here now. We're legal plus we got the cop sticker and then we'll stick this back on the inspection machine, okay, folks, oh man, i got ta turn off that at ac cranking because we had to recharge it because the alternators are super easy to do on these.
So no one ever you got ta pull the goddang ac compressor off to do them so we'll get her outside here and let her warm up a bit. Oh here's the note from the uh yeah the kia dealer, the uh nissan dealer, a very famous nissan dealer, located in rochester uh. Let's see here this says, uh manufacturer manufacturer recommended service. Electrical customer has had abs, wheel, speed, sensors you place on 1223 vehicle warning light.
Flash on when customer turned right calls caused by the vehicle was incorrectly diagnosed on repair order such and such the lead tech diagnosed an internal failure in the engine room harness it would need to have the entire harness replaced. Customer declined, repairs, wow anyhow, so that's that that's from the nissan dealer. So let's get the data pulled up on the screen. Now that we've talked about the 10 days, how to get them we're going to look at the voltage and then we're just going to drive it so right now, it's idling at 13.5 volts up here on the corner, scan tool.
Um! Sorry, i didn't bring you along on the diag. It's been a little uh crazy today, and we just need to get there out of here immediately. I see a difference because look at an idle before our charging voltage, i want to say, was near 14 volts um. Our alternator right now is duty cycling at 42 percent.
So that's quite interesting before it was at zero, and that's that's odd that it can that it has a sense circuit. It has control of it, but it doesn't throw a code for it, which is kind of kind of crazy. You would think that it would notice abnormality in there and throw a code. I would think, but in this case it doesn't.
I think it can detect that duty cycle signal wire. If there's a short in it, i think or open circuited. Perhaps because i do know it does have the ability to throw codes for the generator um. Okay, so anyhow, is what it is.
Let's go for a rip and see how we make out all right so far, so good folks, i'm extremely confident that we have it repaired uh. What i'm gon na do i wan na see if we can get a full drive suck out we're down to just two monitors. Left we've only been four miles: um i'm gon na keep the car overnight. I think she wants some more work done to it. It's got some clunky sway bar links on it, just starting to get a little bit of rattle in the front and a little rattle in the rear. I believe she wants that stuff fixed too there we go we're down to just one monitor now, so we've ran enough of a drive cycle to get a legal state inspection. Though um you can't fail new york state for having loose, sway bar links. They have to be broken.
Uh, thankfully otherwise, like every car, would fail. So we're gon na head back to the shop here, we'll just jump on the highway, but the voltage has been just rock solid and the car hasn't missed a b. Obviously, no, you know no speed, sensor codes or anything, and oddly enough too, no codes at all no pending codes, nothing we were getting that one there for the intake tuning valve must be that was a product of you know the wonky voltages, for whatever reason, because I see that has not come back pending or current, so that's good um, but the lady did mention you know prior to having the issue with it. You know doing its thing.
She wasn't having any problems prior to that. So i guess this is it? It's kind of a silly fix, so this lady will be happy. The only thing she won't be happy about is that she already lost over a thousand dollars at the nissan dealership, which they should be a little bit embarrassed. This was not a difficult diagnosis.
Um, their service data kind of led me a little astray with the theory and operation on the alternator and how that functions uh, but in either case. That's it you know. No, i don't know what to say. Shame on you nissan! That's what i say, but anyhow, what i need you to do is go down in that comments say something to me, but what you think do you think the nissan dealer should give this lady her money back or she should just move on with life? I think she should get refunded in an apology and just say: hey sorry, lady, we were just guessing bye, you, let me know down there the questions, the comments, the concerns you have we're on the institute, we're on the facebook.
You know where to find us and just from our viewers, if i can do it, you can do it. I've got to point at you thanks for watching bonus footage. I just pulled in the shop and it actually ran the event monitor. So all the monitors are complete.
No codes charging steady, it's all good baby. It's all good!.
Its robbery and they should do the right thing and refund her money. Why is it so hard for dealers to just say I dont know. By being honest with your customers and create a relationship you improve your business. Word of mouth can damage your credibility past repair. Great video and great work.
What irritates the F out of me is when dealers or bad mechanics are parts cannons and you are stuck with the bill. It should not be legal, but you really have no way to say it did not need the work they did, all they have to claim is it was part of the problem. If you are not a mechanic how would you know to prove em wrong.
Eric, unless I missed it, you said she bought a new car; was it another Nissan? Nissan certainly owes her something (maybe re-imburse, at least, your charges) back to this fine lady. By the way, great video, as always.
Eric O keeps putting up these videos where he fixes lost cause cars that have been through multiple shops, and then he complains when people from around the country want to bring their lost causes to him. He might as well roll with it and staff up – hire a staff of first-class techs and start the Avoca Automobile Sanctuary.
Awesome work. You always prove that you can figure it out. Well I have to say that the same goes for around here in York county Pennsylvania….a shop /dealer will hire anyone who says that they have tools and a scanner. The difference is they don't know how to use it or what they are looking at.
I feel for the Nissan tech somewhat. I worked at a dealership once and their training sucked. I was left on my own a lot to troubleshoot and dig for info on my nickel, not the dealership. Sometimes I would just have to say give the car back it's costing me too much to find out what is wrong. I had bills to pay and the dealership could have cared less. Yes, I left. Great job troubleshooting this one. Cars are getting very complex and soon it will take an 8-year degree to work on these things – lol. Long live Eric. Open a tech school and give your gift to the world.
i have a nissan murano and yes it is the altanator. when mine went bad same thing happened battery light, brake light, and the traction control light came on at the same time and car slowed down and shut off but the cause was a radiator hose with a pin hole in it was spraying anti- freeze on the altenator yea go figure
When I feel I’ve been “ripped off” at a car dealership or any major purchase, I write two letters (1) praising the company for “doing the right thing and refunding my $$money” and (2) complaint with details, names, dates, etc. Both are addressed to BBB, Google reviews and the Owner (CEO). I ask for a meeting with Gen Mgr. carrying two envelopes with the letters and ONE (1) stamp! Let him/her decide which one gets mailed!!! 90% of the time I get a refund or replacement merchandise!
It just goes to show how much of a state the automotive industry is with undertrained and unqualified technicians working on these vehicles.
Is it the techs fault or their place of employment for not continuing the techs education?.
I’ve worked in this industry for 20 years and have seen some of the most craziest misdiagnosed vehicles of all time that have been sent my way.
I really feel for the customers who are taken advantage of particularly if they are financially challenged.
I would say refund, it was their time they wasted and she should not pay them for wasting their time. Gotta luv these ecu driven cars, I have an 86 Pontiac Grand Prix and it took me 5 minutes last summer to figure out the alternator was junk…..just saying….
In recent years I've noticed that the dealerships techs (mind you not all, but a select few) just dont understand the modern vehicle still, i feel techs rely too much on the obd codes and just look at repairing whatever the code says is wrong, rather then looking upstream a little to see what the real reason is. I've had misdiagnosis at 2 local dealers, rhe first was on my wifes 2010 journey rt that consumed so much oil that you couldn't even make it a full oil change duration, dealer claimed that was in spec. 2nd was when my wife's 17 edge was drinking coolant like no tomorrow. They orgianlly stated minor leak in coolant bottle, but it wasnt till I told them we had the system uv dyed and that I was getting a misfire code on one of the cylinders that they pulled the trigger and warranted the engine for defect in the block that caused antifreeze consumption. We are in a time where techs are not as plentiful, the education system has failed many young minds who are hands on learners and want to go into the blue collar work force, banishing them and telling thoae individuals that they will amount to nothing later in life. Some districts have made the decision to invest in those hands on classes at the high school level, but so many have not, and its ashame because the future is our children. Look at all the skilled trade jobs that go unfillled in America every year. Thank you Eric for being a great teacher, mentor and mechanic.
The 'lead' technician mention reminds of a Space Cowboys Clint Eastwood quip – Ethan: Excuse me. I hold two masters degrees from MIT, Dr. Corvin. Frank: Maybe you ought to get your money back.